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Rank: Koopa Troopa
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/10/2005
Posts: 126
Location: Germany
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I've got a question to you: There are always those symbols in the name of game ROMs. (At least on good websites.) Now I planned to download every NES game, which I have already managed. But I had a rule: Only ROMs that represent a real cartridge. And now, to be sure, I want to know: What symbols show that this is another version of the game and which ones just indicate that it's a different version of the ROM?
Let's become more concrete:
There are three versions of "Super Mario Bros." that represent actual versions: "(JU) (PRG0)", "(JU) (PRG1)" and "(E)". So, that means that there were actually three versions of the game: A European one and two Japan/US ones. To have a complete list of all games, I have to download all three.
On the other hand, "Super Mario Bros. (JU) (PRG0) [b1]" is not a representation of a real game. It's just a bad dump, so it's just another ROM of the same cartridge. That's why I don't have to download it.
And now please tell me Which symbols show me that this is a different version of the game and where are the files just another ROM? For example we have the symbol "[a]" for alternate version. Is "Super Mario Bros. (E) [a1]" another original version or is it an alternate ROM? Or what's with "[BF]" (bug fix)? Did Nintendo fix a bug and release the game one more time or does it refer to the already dumped ROM? And what kind of bug was fixed? Shall I rather use the version with or without "[BF]" in it? What's with the whole translations ("[T]")? Did they really exist as cartridges or were they just translated by private persons on the PC?
I'd really appreciate if somebody could help me with it.[/u]
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Rank: Bowser
Groups: Member
Joined: 6/28/2005
Posts: 2,793
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This probably won't help, but ill give you a link anyways. ROM symbolsAnd dont crap on me if its not what you wanted. im trying to help.
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Rank: Koopa Troopa
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/10/2005
Posts: 126
Location: Germany
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O.k., but I don't want to get the meaning of it. (I already know that.) I want to know if a symbol represents a real game or just a ROM: Is "[a]" meant to be an official alternate version of the game (A fictitous example: "Maniac Mansion" with and without the hamster in the microwave) or just a selfmade alternate version of the ROM (For example: I dumped "Zelda" and after it I corrected the badly translated texts in the file on the PC).
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Rank: Lakitu
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/24/2004
Posts: 976
Location: Linux on XBOX is totally ACE!
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[a] Alternative = Officially released cartridge by the developer. Virtually the same as the original release but modified to make the game incompatible with unlicensed peripherals ("Game Genie" and such). These are all ACTUAL GAMES, not "home made" or "hacks". (prg) Program = Official release of original game. The difference is in the mapper used. It is identified by the number after "prg". Example Game with mapper 0 would be labeled as (prg0). In other words, a real game. [T] Translated = Original games that have been translated by at home programmers. They are not official releases. In addition, the games have also been "text hacked" to implement the Greek/Roman alphabet (or another character set), usually from Japanese text. They are not 100% REAL, but there is no change in the actual game itself. It's just a matter of if you want the game in your language of choice. (NOTE Not to be confused with lowercase [t] "trainer".) [BF] Bung Fix (NOT " Bug Fix") = A "fix" for GameBoy games that can be used with a special cartridge developed by a company called Bung. I don't think this applies much to emulation. It was used for the actual GameBoy and GBC. So... if you expect to grab a ROM of every single "official" game release, expect to have hundreds of duplicate games with virtually no difference in them. If you just want the complete library of games for a system, just get the original ROMs and don't bother with the [a]'s and [prg]'s.
http://www.playthenes.com
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Rank: Koopa Troopa
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/10/2005
Posts: 126
Location: Germany
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So, if I understand you correctly, then there is only one symbol written in square brackets that represents an actual game: [a]. (And of course the [!].) (PRG is written in round brackets, by the way.) All other symbols either represent a modified ROM or a pirated game, right? (I'm only referring to the NES. For other consoles like the Game Boy of course advanced rules count.)
But I still have some questions
1. What does [f] mean? It's labeled as "Other Fix", but here again the question: Does this refer to the game (the company fixed something and released the new version) or to the ROM (a private person fixed something in the NES file)?
2. What would be the difference between "Game (U)" and "Game (U) [!]"? Isn't "Game (U)" already the original, correct version? Why is a [!] then necessary as "Verified Good Dump"?
3. How can the program GoodNES recognize the correct name of every single game? Does the binary code of the game somehow contain the name with all the symbols?
P.S.: I would have found it better if they had used round brackets for all the game information (country, PRG, alternative, unlicensed, pirate etc.) and square ones for the ROM information (bad dump, crack etc.).
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Rank: Lakitu
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Joined: 12/24/2004
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Location: Linux on XBOX is totally ACE!
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[f] "Fix" = A ROM that has been specially "fixed" in order to increase it's compatibility with emulators or other software-based programs. This usually applies to older versions of ROMs, before emulation got more advanced. NOT from a real game. (U) "U.S.A. Release" = Games/carts originally released in the United States of America. That's all. Usually these games are the most common and are all in English language. It does not mean "good dump". [!] "Verified Good Dump" = Correctly working ROM of a game. I'm not sure why games are listed with/without the [!]. Your best choice is just to go after games listed with [!] just so you know you are getting a good working version. "Denny" wrote:I would have found it better if they had used round brackets for all the game information (country, PRG, alternative, unlicensed, pirate etc.) and square ones for the ROM information (bad dump, crack etc.). Indeed, it would have made things easier to figure out.
http://www.playthenes.com
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Rank: Koopa Troopa
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/10/2005
Posts: 126
Location: Germany
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Thank you for your information. You helped me a lot. By the way: Quote:(U) "U.S.A. Release" = Games/carts originally released in the United States of America. That's all. Usually these games are the most common and are all in English language. It does not mean "good dump". I know this. Of course it's the country code and not a symbol for a good ROM. I just wondered why a [!] is necessary, since a ROM that only contains the game name and the country code, without any additional symbols, should already (automatically) be the "good dump". (If it was not, it would have a [b1] in the name, so to my opinion a [!] in useless.)
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Rank: Lakitu
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/24/2004
Posts: 976
Location: Linux on XBOX is totally ACE!
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"Denny" wrote:I just wondered why a [!] is necessary, since a ROM that only contains the game name and the country code, without any additional symbols, should already (automatically) be the "good dump". (If it was not, it would have a [b1] in the name, so to my opinion a [!] in useless.) I believe the [!] symbol was in use before the country codes, so it was traditional to include it in all ROM dumps. Besides, it makes searching for good dumps a bit quicker just by checking for the [!].
http://www.playthenes.com
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Rank: Koopa Troopa
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/10/2005
Posts: 126
Location: Germany
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@Z.E.N: About the [a] games you wrote Quote:[a] Alternative = Officially released cartridge by the developer. Virtually the same as the original release but modified to make the game incompatible with unlicensed peripherals ("Game Genie" and such). These are all ACTUAL GAMES, not "home made" or "hacks". Well, may I show you something? (Click on the images to show it in the original size.) This is "Super Mario Bros. (E) [a1]"  It has the graphic of the Japan second part. This is "Super Mario Bros. 3 (U) (PRG1) [a1]"  Have you ever seen such a map in an official "Super Mario Bros. 3" game? "Super Mario Bros. 3 (U) (PRG1) [a2]"  The picture is from the first level. And finally "Super Mario Bros. 3 (U) (PRG1) [a3]"  Also from the first level. I tested all ROM names with GoodNES (to prevent that they are just labeled with "Super Mario Bros. (E) [a1]" etc., but really they are not these games). Are you really sure that [a] games are real games and not home made? I mean, I never ever saw any official "Super Mario Bros." game that looks like any of the above pictures. P.S. Can I upload the pictures anywhere on NESFiles.com? Because in the moment they are on my site and I don't plan to keep them there. So, I'd need a place for them, so that they are still there when anybody reads this topic in the future. The problem with the image upload is solved.
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Rank: Bowser
Groups: Member
, Moderators
Joined: 12/13/2004
Posts: 3,577
Location: Ontario, Canada
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"Denny" wrote:
P.S.: Can I upload the pictures anywhere on NESFiles.com? Because in the moment they are on my site and I don't plan to keep them there. So, I'd need a place for them, so that they are still there when anybody reads this topic in the future.
http://imageshack.us
 
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Rank: Hammer Bros.
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Joined: 1/28/2005
Posts: 1,962
Location: North Fort Myers, FL.
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Rank: Koopa Troopa
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/10/2005
Posts: 126
Location: Germany
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Quote:looks like you downloaded hacked ROMs Yes, of course. But I don't think anybody hacked for example the ROM "Super Mario Bros. (E) [a1]", so that it looks different somewhere else. I rather think that ROMs with an [a] in the name are per se hacked ROMs (in this case a hack of "Super Mario Bros. (E)"), so that [a] (alternate) doesn't mean an official alternative of the company, but an alternative that a person made himself. But I'd still like to hear what Z.E.N has to say about it, since he told me that they are official.
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Rank: Lakitu
Groups: Member
Joined: 12/24/2004
Posts: 976
Location: Linux on XBOX is totally ACE!
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I can't find any more information about "alternatives". The stuff I posted came from a TXT file that I read some time ago and I can't find the link. Those screenshots look like "hacks". Either they were incorrectly labeled or the definition I found of [a] is wrong. I will clear up this ROM symbol mess as soon as I find any "correct" info about it.
http://www.playthenes.com
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Rank: Koopa Troopa
Groups: Member
Joined: 10/10/2005
Posts: 126
Location: Germany
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Quote:Those screenshots look like "hacks". Either they were incorrectly labeled or the definition I found of [a] is wrong. It's nearly impossible that they were labeled incorrectly. I tested them with the program GoodNES which is able to rename every ROM back to its original name. The program recognized the ROM, but didn't give it another name. (Every recognized ROM is moved to the file "rename", no matter if it really had to be renamed. ROMs that are unknown to the program are not moved.) I tried something out I took a normal "Super Mario Bros." ROM and with NESticle I changed a little bit of the graphic. After the change GoodNES didn't recognize the ROM anymore. So, we can assume that the names of the [a] ROMs are not incorrect. If it was the case, GoodNES would have renamed them (if the ROM is known) or they would have been ignored (if the ROM is unknown). But GoodNES definitely recognized them and the names were not changed. That's why I think the latter case is true: [a] is not a label for an official alternative. The official alternatives are PRG0, PRG1 etc. (Compare both "Zelda" versions: The second one has the "Hold reset when power is turned off or the battery state may be lost" warning, the first one not.)
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